Guest, Personality

Guest: Masashi Kimura from Room6

Born in 1972, currently 50 years old. After graduating from a computer specialized school, he aimed to work in the gaming industry but ended up becoming a business engineer. In 2010, he started his own business with the desire to develop iPhone applications, inspired by the release of the iPhone in 2007. He realized that game development could also be done on the iPhone and started developing smartphone games around 2013.

From around 2015, he has participated in many indie game events both domestically and internationally. Around 2017, he started developing console games for Nintendo Switch. In 2019, he began working as an indie game publisher through connections with developers he met at events. In 2020, he started operating the indie game label “Yokaze” which collects games from around the world.

Personality: Yuuki Sakoda

After working for a telecommunications company and a comprehensive advertising agency, he started an anime planning and production company and produces music videos and films. In 2021, he moved to Kyoto and started working on promoting the entertainment industry in Kyoto. He is currently also working in the entertainment field of manga and audio. He is planning and producing audio dramas and webtoons. In addition, he serves as a producer and advisor for multiple entertainment companies.

#01

Student days aiming for the gaming industry…
Daily life of a business systems engineer
The reawakening of passion for games with the advent of the iPhone
Interview with Taiyo Shiiba, the composer for “world for two”
The importance of music in indie games
The significance of music, scenarios, graphics, and game systems

#02

From various life events to starting an independent business
Motivation for game development accelerated by participating in indie game events
The charming office in Demachiyanagi, Kyoto
Games and monetization
The nourishment received from anime during tough times
The final push to make games more enjoyable
The importance of test players and the difficulty of judgment

#03

While video media is a linear format, games are…
Games with interactive elements are the pinnacle of complex systems
What Room6 and Yokaze Label want to provide based on this understanding
Meeting Hako Seikatsu at a pixel art event
Starting the publishing business in 2019
Creating game works as if they were one’s own children
The development of Phantom AP advanced well with excellent collaboration among creators
The latest work will be released when it is completed

During my student years, I was aiming for a career in the gaming industry, but…

Sakoda

Today, I have a self-introduction that I received in advance from Mr. Kimura, but it had a very interesting background. So, I thought it would be nice to pick it up one by one and ask Mr. Kimura how he felt at that time. Is that okay?

Kimura

Yes, please proceed with that.

Sakoda

It is written that you graduated from a computer specialized school and were aiming for the game industry at that time, but you were unable to join the company.

Kimura

Well, since I was a child, I’ve been a big fan of games, mainly computer games. I’ve been playing games all the time. In the past, I used a programming language called BASIC to create some simple games. I always wanted to learn programming and work for a game company, but at that time it was very difficult to get a job due to the economic recession, and the game industry didn’t have as many job openings as it does now. I applied to a company that starts with C, which makes fighting games in Osaka, and made it to a certain point in the application process, but unfortunately I wasn’t able to get hired, so I ended up starting a regular engineering job.

Daily Life of a Business Systems Engineer

Sakoda

In your self-introduction, it was written that you are a business system engineer. By the way, what kind of work does this business system engineer entail?

Kimura

Well, what kind of person are you looking for? For my part, I have experience in creating various systems, including the general systems within this company as an outsourced developer. I have created accounting systems for banks and even some unusual systems, such as web-based and TV station programming systems. Additionally, I have worked on various systems, including those related to banking and network security.

Sakoda

It’s probably in the 1990s… or something like that.

Kimura

Well, when we faced the so-called Y2K problem, I spent the New Year’s Eve of 1999 staying up overnight. I was keeping an eye on my computer just in case.

Sakoda

It’s been a topic of conversation for a while that we’ll actually face the Y2K problem in our work. By the way, did you study game development in vocational school?

Kimura

Back then, there were no specialized schools for game programming, so I was just studying computer programming normally. However, because I had already been studying on my own, there wasn’t much for me to learn at the specialized school. It wasn’t very interesting. Nowadays, there are many specialized schools for game programming and there is a lot to learn, but 30 years ago there weren’t many schools like that.

Sakoda

The way to build a career isn’t really clear, is it? Even in the age of the internet, it’s not like you can just easily search for it and find it. Well, I guess there’s no other choice but to try going to a vocational school or university first and then think about it.

Kimura

I see. I went to vocational school with the sole purpose of studying programming, so that’s how I feel about it.

The emergence of the iPhone and the resurgence of my passion for gaming

Sakoda

I see. Well, in the midst of working as a business systems engineer and facing the Y2K problem from the 1990s to the 2000s, um, jumping ahead a bit to 2007, the emergence of the iPhone had a huge impact on the media, and I often compare it to that. Yes, did Mr. Kimura also get inspired by this…?

Kimura

Yes, that’s right. I was really surprised when the first iPhone was released, especially when Steve Jobs did the demo. At the time, I was working on UI/UX design, so I was a little interested, but I was really shocked when the iPhone came out. I felt like it was a truly amazing device that would change the world. That’s when I decided that I wanted to try doing something like that myself, but the company I was working for at the time was very conservative, and even when I consulted with the president, he firmly stated that we wouldn’t do it. So, I decided to quit and do it myself.

Sakoda

I totally understand that feeling. When the iPhone 3G was released, it was said that there was no way something like this would become popular for two or three years. There was a time when i-mode and flip phones were dominant, and it was constantly being said that something so difficult to use couldn’t become mainstream. Therefore, I think it’s a good decision to develop something independently. From here, I think it’s going to be quite connected, but did Mr. Kimura, who graduated from a vocational school, aimed for the game industry but didn’t get involved in games for 10 to 15 years, still have that burning passion for games, and did it lead to full-scale game development when the iPhone came out?

Kimura

Well, at first, it wasn’t connected at all. Initially, I was just doing regular work that I got from a company I had previously worked with in the same field. However, I learned that there was a framework for creating games on the iPhone, so I figured I had to try it since it used to be a really difficult task to create games, especially in C language. But with this iPhone framework, it seemed like I could make a game by myself, so I started my own business and began making games after some time. However, I had no idea what I was doing since I had never made a game before, so I had no idea what to do. The first game I made was really bad and barely even resembled a game.

Sakoda

Using the iPhone framework almost alone at that timing?

Kimura

Well, let’s see. I worked in a team of 2-3 people, and I was involved in both server-side development and planning, as well as taking on the role of overseeing the project as a whole. As an engineer, I was also involved in game planning and design, and the genre we first worked on was location-based games. We were trying to create a really epic location-based game.

Sakoda

How about making use of the GPS function on your iPhone…?

Kimura

Yes, that’s right. Using the feature, it was a bit too grandiose to create it on the first shot, and of course I couldn’t make it, or ultimately it never really got finished.

Sakoda

No, or rather, I am getting crazy wanting to hear about Kimura’s conflict in creating a location-based game in 2011, but I am going too far off topic, so please let me hear it somewhere else. I got my iPhone around 2008, and I was impressed that I could use Google Maps and Google Earth on my phone, but in terms of the impact of the iPhone, I remember an app called “Sekai Camera”. I felt the future with an app that allowed me to place tags in various places by holding up my iPhone. Therefore, I can understand the feeling of wanting to do something with a location-based game.

Kimura

Yes, that’s right. I was thinking of making something like the Sekai Camera. It was amazing back then, but if I start talking about it, it will get long again, haha.

Sakoda

I see. So, even while considering such things, you started game development independently with a team of three starting in 2010. Is that movement still continuing to this day?

Kimura

Well, for me it was just a starting point and I thought it was interesting that you could make games somehow, but after that, the employees changed again and around 2013, the passion to “make games” was rekindled and we started making them in earnest within the company. Until then, it had been like a hobby done alongside work, but around 2013, we decided to work towards releasing the games we made.

Sakoda

Oh, I see. So, even though there were various twists and turns, you always had the desire to pursue creativity through games, and maybe it was the iPhone that pushed you forward.

Kimura

I don’t know about that. It’s completely iPhone now, isn’t it~? Well, I think it was around the time when there was a huge increase in individual game creators developing games for iPhone and Android. I feel like I was able to ride that wave a little and settle into it.

Sakoda

The iPhone has certainly changed the lives of many creators. It’s an incredible device that has had a significant impact on the lives of its makers. It’s not often that a device can change a person’s life in such a comprehensive way, both in terms of software and hardware. It’s truly remarkable.

Daisuke Shiiba is the musician who creates music for “World for Two”.

Sakoda

Well, how about we take a break and listen to a song around here? I think this song may be related to the game that Kimura-san is currently working on.

Kimura

Yes, that’s right. So, for the first song, well, it’s a bit biased towards our company, but I’d like to present the song “MUSOUKYOKU（World for Two）” composed by Daisuke Shiiba, which is included in one of our published game titles. Thank you.

Sakoda

Yes, the piece you just heard was “MUSOUKYOKU（World for Two）” by Daisuke Shiiba. Do you have any anecdotes about this piece or about Daisuke Shiiba?

Kimura

Well, yes. Daisuke Shiiba was originally with Nintendo and worked on various game music. After retiring, he has been active as a game music composer, and we have been asking him to compose music for our games for a long time through connections. Among them, I think “world for two” is a particularly wonderful piece of music. Daisuke Shiiba is a composer who is good at making music with live instruments, especially stringed instruments are wonderful. When I first heard the performance of the violin and string quartet, I fell in love with that world, so I feel like I’ve been asking Daisuke Shiiba for music all the time.

Sakoda

Wow, I’d like to dig a little deeper into this. First of all, I think it’s pretty rare for indie game music to use things like string quartets or live recordings, and that kind of symbol that looks like it was typed on a computer is definitely a signature of indie games, don’t you think?

Kimura

Yes, I agree. It’s the “pico pico” sound, also known as chip tunes, and I really like it too. I think many games use chip tune music. As for live music, there’s hardly any in indie games. I think it’s costly and quite troublesome to produce.

The Importance of Music in Indie Games

Kimura

Recording raw audio is quite difficult to redo, so I would say that I focus more on music. Instead of matching music to a game, I record music first and then match the game to the music. There are some places where I handle it from a music-centric perspective.

Sakoda

The way music is created to match the visuals is unusual, even when considering anime. There is something called “presco = prescoring” in which the voice actors record their lines first, but even that is extremely rare. In games, it’s relatively uncommon for music to be the starting point of inspiration, and for the game’s world to be created from there.

Kimura

That’s right. However, there may be some parts that can be worked on in parallel. Of course, we sometimes request composers to create songs, but since the completed songs are recorded in one take, we want to cherish them. Even if the music doesn’t match the game, we try to adjust and match the game somehow. However, the power of live performance is truly amazing, so we really want to record with live instruments if possible. This is something we really value.

Sakoda

But that’s really true, right? When it comes to recording raw sound, you really need the total skill set that includes preparing the studio, preparing the orchestra, and communication in that environment. Artists who can do that are particularly rare in the indie game industry, aren’t they?”

Kimura

That’s right, isn’t it? Yeah, it might be only Daisuke Shiiba, but well, music is really important after all.

Sakoda

I also had the opportunity to play room6’s game, which is from the “Yokaze” brand. I would like to include an explanation of the “Yokaze” brand somewhere later, but when playing their game titles, it gives a sense of going to listen to music. They have created a world that is dominated by incredible music. So, it was good to hear Mr. Kimura’s story for the first time and learn that the weight of music was really strong.

Kimura

I often think that even if I forget the rules of a game I played a long time ago, I often remember the music. I wonder why music stays with us for so long. I have had experiences like that and I think that music is something that cannot be compromised and must be treated as a very important element.

Sakoda

Music isn’t exactly like Pavlov’s dogs, but when you listen to it, the scenery and emotions of that moment instantly come back to you.

Kimura

That’s right, isn’t it? Of course, the content of the game, graphics, and scenario are important, but music is also important. Well, this is the three pillars, right?

Sakoda

By the way, if we were to put it into words, what would “the three pillars” mean?

Music, scenario, graphics, and game system are important.

Kimura

Oh, it’s not three pillars, but four pillars, right? Music, graphics, scenario, and game system, I guess. Among them, I think music is very important, at least in my opinion. Therefore, in other game titles as well, there are many that are particular about music.

Sakoda

I see. In the latter half of the episode, the conversation shifts to music, starting from the middle of Kimura-san’s career. I would like to ask more about this. As mentioned earlier, there are many impressive indie games and big titles in console games that feature music. In the case of indie games, I think having fewer notes contributes to creating symbolic significance. I also remember the music from games such as “The Legend of Zelda,” “Donkey Kong,” “Seiken Densetsu,” and “Chrono Trigger.” Recently, I saw an interview with David Wise, who talked about how he created the music for Donkey Kong. He said that it’s important to first create a good beat. If there’s a good beat, the melody will naturally follow. Since the beat is also directly related to the world view, I think it’s very important. Could you please tell us again what kind of obsession Kimura-san and room6-san have regarding music?

Kimura

Well, as for me, I’m not the composer, so basically I leave it up to them, but the world view is still important. Our game values the world view very much, so we want players to immerse themselves in that world. Therefore, we always discuss with the composer and other staff members how to incorporate the world view into the music.